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Episode Description

Hosts Isaac and Jamie sit with the ever-brilliant Zebulon Hurst, a black, trans non-binary student in graduate school pursuing a Master of Divinity, and talk about their respective journeys with their gender identity. Isaac and Zebulon go on to comment on being queer people of color in higher education and the ways they’ve felt out of place yet demanded space.

You can find Zebulon on Instagram at @blackestgarlic

Episode Timestamps

00:01:32 – Isaac describes their experience as a Latinx gender non-conforming/non-binary person

00:02:50 – Zebulon describes their gender as a black person

00:04:49 – Jamie describes themselves and their journey with their gender

00:06:46 – Zebulon talks about when they first found language for their gender experience. The power of clothing.

00:09:26 – Isaac and their journey with gender

00:11:19 – Internal dysphoria from other people’s perceptions

00:12:55 – Zebulon: “My internal identity is stable even though my outward presentation is flexible/fluid.”

00:13:40 – Jamie talks about the struggle of perceptions and the gender binary

00:17:25 – Clothing being linked to vanity and its reliability to trust as an expression of gender 

00:19:40 – Internal vs. external regulation of gender

00:20:35 – Jamie: “I’m internally regulated. I don’t need to regulate my gender. I don’t need clothes to regulate my gender, but I’d like to use them to express it.”

00:21:32 – When presenting one way hides another part of you

00:22:13 – Safety in what you where, when you where it

00:22:54 – Vanity being associate with clothing connotes something negative

00:24:31 – Isaac: “I was better off staying small and so anything flashy felt like I was betraying my role.” 

00:27:20 – How gender and sexual orientation impacts the relationships of hosts and guest

00:36:15 – Why support a queer person who stays in a system of oppression?

00:37:20 – Zebulon gives advice for a young person in prejudiced spaces

00:39:43 – Isaac’s family background and what their culture brings to spaces

00:41:40 – What the guest brings to a space

00:41:54 – Zebulon: “We can not, as a people, continue to refuse to acknowledge our trauma. We can’t keep refusing to process it or name it.”

00:42:40 – Zebulon: “You can have a very complex relationship with your trauma and it doesn’t mean you survived wrong or that you somehow deserved whatever happened.”

00:46:10 – Zebulon reads a rewrite they did of the Mourner’s Kaddish


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